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	<title>Comments on: Protecting us from ourselves</title>
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		<title>By: trisha</title>
		<link>http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-11978</link>
		<dc:creator>trisha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 13:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-11978</guid>
		<description>My husband and I are also both rh-.I have alot of unpublished information on rh- blood types. Write me at: Born2BearBabies@aol.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My husband and I are also both rh-.I have alot of unpublished information on rh- blood types. Write me at: <a href="mailto:Born2BearBabies@aol.com">Born2BearBabies@aol.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: yobbo</title>
		<link>http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1403</link>
		<dc:creator>yobbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 07:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1403</guid>
		<description>No different than me having to see a doctor to sign a form to get my Asthma prescriptions filled, even though I&#039;ve been taking the exact same drugs for 20 years. There are many, many things that only doctors can do that anyone with access to google could do themselves.

The vast majority of GP visits are 3 minute jobs where the patient just wants a prescription. It&#039;s a huge waste of time and money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No different than me having to see a doctor to sign a form to get my Asthma prescriptions filled, even though I&#8217;ve been taking the exact same drugs for 20 years. There are many, many things that only doctors can do that anyone with access to google could do themselves.</p>
<p>The vast majority of GP visits are 3 minute jobs where the patient just wants a prescription. It&#8217;s a huge waste of time and money.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1398</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think he&#039;s happy to pay for the tests, he&#039;s not happy to have to have all of us pay for a doctors appointment to sign a form for him to pay for the tests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think he&#8217;s happy to pay for the tests, he&#8217;s not happy to have to have all of us pay for a doctors appointment to sign a form for him to pay for the tests.</p>
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		<title>By: Rod Clarke</title>
		<link>http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1397</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1397</guid>
		<description>So basically this is all about some poor old lefty complaining about having to put his hand in his own pocket.

Oh FFS dude your going to become a father so its time to start learning how to waist time and to shell out cash.

I for one am happy that GPs specialists and surgeons have a closed shop and keep the dregs out. 


If you want to see what an open shop looks like go to a &quot;holistic&quot; birthing centre! estrogen soaked no-responsibility femborg quackery at its best........ afterall there only risking your kid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So basically this is all about some poor old lefty complaining about having to put his hand in his own pocket.</p>
<p>Oh FFS dude your going to become a father so its time to start learning how to waist time and to shell out cash.</p>
<p>I for one am happy that GPs specialists and surgeons have a closed shop and keep the dregs out. </p>
<p>If you want to see what an open shop looks like go to a &#8220;holistic&#8221; birthing centre! estrogen soaked no-responsibility femborg quackery at its best&#8230;&#8230;.. afterall there only risking your kid.</p>
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		<title>By: steve munn</title>
		<link>http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1385</link>
		<dc:creator>steve munn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1385</guid>
		<description>Steve,

I have long thought that the Government should ban workplace agreements requiring workers to obtain a medical certificate for a sick day UNLESS they are taking 3 or more days off.  This is a definite waste of Medicare funds as well as the doctors time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>I have long thought that the Government should ban workplace agreements requiring workers to obtain a medical certificate for a sick day UNLESS they are taking 3 or more days off.  This is a definite waste of Medicare funds as well as the doctors time.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1372</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Dec 2006 20:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1372</guid>
		<description>with regard point 1, if people don&#039;t want to go and get themselves assessed even if it puts themselves at risk should we really be forcing them to go with forced referals? I don&#039;t see this as a black and white issue and obviously there are cases where we do need to help people look after themselves eg in the extreme example the mentally ill. To what degree should we be forcing people for a relatively small risk when they are obviously capable of making decisions. I don&#039;t find this very compelling.

As to point 2. With a very large false negative rate yes the results need significant expert apraisal and it could generate more GP visits I take this point, but I&#039;m unsure as to what degree this is really would be a problem. Perhaps if people were visiting GP&#039;s less for trivial referals then it would free up enough services. :) 

3. As I said maybe more goes on than I appreciate. I didn&#039;t know there were immunization clinics but it is good that there are I quesiton how many there are though.  

My opinion on this is formed from spending time in say a hospital. Obviously you&#039;ve spent more but perhaps from a different perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>with regard point 1, if people don&#8217;t want to go and get themselves assessed even if it puts themselves at risk should we really be forcing them to go with forced referals? I don&#8217;t see this as a black and white issue and obviously there are cases where we do need to help people look after themselves eg in the extreme example the mentally ill. To what degree should we be forcing people for a relatively small risk when they are obviously capable of making decisions. I don&#8217;t find this very compelling.</p>
<p>As to point 2. With a very large false negative rate yes the results need significant expert apraisal and it could generate more GP visits I take this point, but I&#8217;m unsure as to what degree this is really would be a problem. Perhaps if people were visiting GP&#8217;s less for trivial referals then it would free up enough services. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>3. As I said maybe more goes on than I appreciate. I didn&#8217;t know there were immunization clinics but it is good that there are I quesiton how many there are though.  </p>
<p>My opinion on this is formed from spending time in say a hospital. Obviously you&#8217;ve spent more but perhaps from a different perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: ASR</title>
		<link>http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1371</link>
		<dc:creator>ASR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Dec 2006 20:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1371</guid>
		<description>Steve,

&quot;I was told that the blood bank’s testing would not be sufficient from detering the doctors at the hospital from administering the injection,&quot;

The blood bank&#039;s test is enough to determine whether you get anti-D (see http://www.ranzcog.edu.au/womenshealth/anti-d.shtml) but there are many other antigens that can cause haemolytic disease of the newborn.  I guess the issue is also non-paternity as we discussed.  NHMRC guidelines for anti-d administration can be found in this FAQ word document approved by the ARCBS: http://www.transfusion.com.au/FILES/RhD/Clinical.doc    

&quot;without a referral from a doctor, which would of course require an appointment and cash&quot;
This is a whole other argument/debate  about the decline in bulk billing doctors.  Ideally, most GPs would bulk bill and it wouldn&#039;t require shelling out &quot;cash&quot; but due to the inefficiencies in our federal/state system, cost shifting has resulted by the federal govt has resulted in a system where less GPs bulk bill and therefore more people go to &quot;free&quot; EDs.

I think your article is an excellent summary, and I agree that the line could be drawn at blood type, but I think the point raises a number of issues about access to health and testing as you&#039;ve outlined.  Just a few additional points i&#039;d like to add:

1.  In an ideal system there is a role for GPs doing &quot;health prevention&quot; (see http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_02_180705/rus10405_fm.html) so that if a person is &quot;forced&quot; to see a GP to get something they think they want, the interaction should have more quality than to just focus on why the person has come but allow the GP the opportunity to discuss other health issues like hypertension and cholesterol etc so the person might make changes before its too late (i haven&#039;t articulated that well but see: http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/185_08_161006/har10079_fm.html). Young men are especially bad at focusing on their health before it&#039;s too late.

2. With respect to whole body scanners, another aspect to consider is that the scan may show something of uncertain significance (because the test is now being used as an unevaluated screen rather than having a pre-test probability for a certain diagnosis) and then the person having the scan will be referred to a GP to discuss the result.  Thus if lots of rich people start paying to have these, they may displace poor people from access to GPs, to discuss results which no one knows the significance of.

3. &quot;Its always seemed to me that the gap between doctors and other medical professionals seems unnecessarily large&quot;
There is a gap within the medical profession itself and I think it is simplistic to lump &quot;doctors&quot; in one group and &quot;other medical professionals&quot; into another (fostering an &quot;us v them&quot; mentality that is populist but destructive) as both groups are as diverse as each other.  For example Steve, have you seen a physiotherapist or speech pathologist lately?  Are you aware of the fees charged by allied health professionals? Immunization clinics do exist.  As for other things, nurse practitioners are increasingly performing tasks in public hospitals which seems to work well.  There are many issues to consider such as getting to a situation where rich people see doctors and poor people see nurses etc and also the issue of liability and insurance but i&#039;ll leave discussing them for another time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>&#8220;I was told that the blood bank’s testing would not be sufficient from detering the doctors at the hospital from administering the injection,&#8221;</p>
<p>The blood bank&#8217;s test is enough to determine whether you get anti-D (see <a href="http://www.ranzcog.edu.au/womenshealth/anti-d.shtml)" rel="nofollow">http://www.ranzcog.edu.au/womenshealth/anti-d.shtml)</a> but there are many other antigens that can cause haemolytic disease of the newborn.  I guess the issue is also non-paternity as we discussed.  NHMRC guidelines for anti-d administration can be found in this FAQ word document approved by the ARCBS: <a href="http://www.transfusion.com.au/FILES/RhD/Clinical.doc" rel="nofollow">http://www.transfusion.com.au/FILES/RhD/Clinical.doc</a>    </p>
<p>&#8220;without a referral from a doctor, which would of course require an appointment and cash&#8221;<br />
This is a whole other argument/debate  about the decline in bulk billing doctors.  Ideally, most GPs would bulk bill and it wouldn&#8217;t require shelling out &#8220;cash&#8221; but due to the inefficiencies in our federal/state system, cost shifting has resulted by the federal govt has resulted in a system where less GPs bulk bill and therefore more people go to &#8220;free&#8221; EDs.</p>
<p>I think your article is an excellent summary, and I agree that the line could be drawn at blood type, but I think the point raises a number of issues about access to health and testing as you&#8217;ve outlined.  Just a few additional points i&#8217;d like to add:</p>
<p>1.  In an ideal system there is a role for GPs doing &#8220;health prevention&#8221; (see <a href="http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_02_180705/rus10405_fm.html)" rel="nofollow">http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_02_180705/rus10405_fm.html)</a> so that if a person is &#8220;forced&#8221; to see a GP to get something they think they want, the interaction should have more quality than to just focus on why the person has come but allow the GP the opportunity to discuss other health issues like hypertension and cholesterol etc so the person might make changes before its too late (i haven&#8217;t articulated that well but see: <a href="http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/185_08_161006/har10079_fm.html)" rel="nofollow">http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/185_08_161006/har10079_fm.html)</a>. Young men are especially bad at focusing on their health before it&#8217;s too late.</p>
<p>2. With respect to whole body scanners, another aspect to consider is that the scan may show something of uncertain significance (because the test is now being used as an unevaluated screen rather than having a pre-test probability for a certain diagnosis) and then the person having the scan will be referred to a GP to discuss the result.  Thus if lots of rich people start paying to have these, they may displace poor people from access to GPs, to discuss results which no one knows the significance of.</p>
<p>3. &#8220;Its always seemed to me that the gap between doctors and other medical professionals seems unnecessarily large&#8221;<br />
There is a gap within the medical profession itself and I think it is simplistic to lump &#8220;doctors&#8221; in one group and &#8220;other medical professionals&#8221; into another (fostering an &#8220;us v them&#8221; mentality that is populist but destructive) as both groups are as diverse as each other.  For example Steve, have you seen a physiotherapist or speech pathologist lately?  Are you aware of the fees charged by allied health professionals? Immunization clinics do exist.  As for other things, nurse practitioners are increasingly performing tasks in public hospitals which seems to work well.  There are many issues to consider such as getting to a situation where rich people see doctors and poor people see nurses etc and also the issue of liability and insurance but i&#8217;ll leave discussing them for another time.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1357</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 21:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1357</guid>
		<description>Yes, that was also pointed out. (Incidentally it also proves the point about referals to a doctor being unnecessary). Although I must add that when I when through the same experience I was told that the blood bank&#039;s testing would not be sufficient from detering the doctors at the hospital from administering the injection, indeed they were likely to question the parentage and want to give it anyway as they try to avoid all these risks. 

My friend wasn&#039;t told this though, just to find out what it was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, that was also pointed out. (Incidentally it also proves the point about referals to a doctor being unnecessary). Although I must add that when I when through the same experience I was told that the blood bank&#8217;s testing would not be sufficient from detering the doctors at the hospital from administering the injection, indeed they were likely to question the parentage and want to give it anyway as they try to avoid all these risks. </p>
<p>My friend wasn&#8217;t told this though, just to find out what it was.</p>
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		<title>By: ozrisk</title>
		<link>http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1350</link>
		<dc:creator>ozrisk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1350</guid>
		<description>Steve,
I agree with what you say, but, on the opening part of the discussion, if you only want to find out your blood type, go and donate blood. Part of the process is to type you. It was the way I found out my type and it accomplishes a social good at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,<br />
I agree with what you say, but, on the opening part of the discussion, if you only want to find out your blood type, go and donate blood. Part of the process is to type you. It was the way I found out my type and it accomplishes a social good at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; Friday&#8217;s Missing Link</title>
		<link>http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1341</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; Friday&#8217;s Missing Link</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2006 03:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://steveedney.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/protecting-us-from-ourselves/#comment-1341</guid>
		<description>[...] Protecting us from ourselves - Steve Edney weighs up the arguments for and against having the right to order one&#8217;s own pathology tests (rather than needing a referral from a GP). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Protecting us from ourselves &#8211; Steve Edney weighs up the arguments for and against having the right to order one&#8217;s own pathology tests (rather than needing a referral from a GP). [...]</p>
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